Thursday, July 31, 2008

A couple of shorts. "Darwinism" / Dominitionsim

This first one is a short read, but a worthy one I think.

Creationists and ID proponents often make it a point to characterize anyone who believes in evolution as an atheist.

As this article points out, the attempt to label evolution as being anyting "Darwinistic," or more specifically "Darwinian" or "Darwinism." It's a code speak subtle attempt to portray that belief-in-evolution as being religious in nature - BUT IN THE ATTEMPT TO PORTRAY THAT RELIGION as being on par with the supposed "atheist religion" of science:
In the US, "Darwinism" is about political power. Evolution is not.

Dr. Kate correctly pointed out recently on the Thoughts From Kansas blog:

Creationists insist on calling [evolution] "Darwinism." If they can get enough people to think that science is a religion, then they can argue that their religion ought to get as much time in the science classroom as "our" religion does.
More information here, and especially here as to how evolution has already transcended so called "Darwinism.":

The test of time

Q: How do you answer the charge that evolution has never been tested?

Miller: Evolution is tested every day in the laboratory, and it's tested every day in the field. I can't think of a single scientific theory that has been more controversial than evolution, and when theories are controversial, people devise tests to see if they're right. Evolution has been tested continuously for almost 150 years and not a single observation, not a single experimental result, has ever emerged in 150 years that contradicts the general outlines of the theory of evolution.

Any theory that can stand up to 150 years of continuous testing is a pretty darn good theory. We use evolution to develop drugs. We use evolution to develop vaccines. We use evolution to manage wildlife. We use evolution to interpret our own genome. Every one of these uses of evolution is a test, because if the use turns out to be inadequate, we would then go back and question the very idea of evolution itself. But evolution has turned out to be such a powerful, productive, and hardworking theory that it's survived that test of time.

Just something to keep an eye out for in conversations.
Also, an excellent article here by Mel Seesholtz (Jul 24, 2008) on dominionism. If you're unnfamiliar with the threat of dominionism, or need a refresher, it's a thorough read and replete with quotes and hyperlinks.

A couple of my favorites parts:
“Protect traditional marriage.” What does “protect” mean? If gay and lesbian couples marry, will heterosexual couples stop? If that were the case, then prohibiting same-sex marriage would “protect” heterosexual marriage. But that is not the case. Heterosexual couples still marry in Massachusetts and California. In fact, heterosexual marriage in those states has been totally unaffected by marriage equality. So one has to conclude that by “protect” Dominionists mean reserve a civil right to a civil institution for some people and deny it to others: the definition of discrimination.
From Chris Hedges’ American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America: “Dominionism is a theocratic sect with its roots in a radical Calvinism. . . . It teaches that American Christians have been mandated by God to make America a Christian state. . . . America becomes, in this militant Biblicism, an agent of God, and all political and intellectual opponents of America’s Christian leaders are viewed, quite simply, as agents of Satan.

“Under Christian dominionism, America will no longer be a sinful and fallen nation but one in which the 10 Commandments form the basis of our legal system, and the media and the government proclaim the Good News to one and all. Labor unions, civil-rights laws and public schools will be abolished. Women will be removed from the workforce to stay at home, and all those deemed insufficiently Christian will be denied citizenship. . . .

“The death penalty is to be imposed not only for offenses such as rape, kidnapping and murder, but also for adultery, blasphemy, homosexuality, astrology, incest, striking a parent, incorrigible juvenile delinquency, and, in the case of women, ‘unchastity before marriage.’ . . .
If interested, more info on dominionism here at Religious Tolerance.

Wednesday, July 30, 2008

'Some face with that egg?

I realize I’m mostly preaching to the choir here, so if you’re unfamiliar with the anti-gay antics of PFOX, here's some suggested reading.

That said, I was recently made aware of PFOX distorting a study in an AFA-One News Now article.

As Holy Bullies and Headless Monsters quotes from the article:

Quoting a recent study, Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays & Gays (PFOX) is warning of the increased risk of suicide that is linked with young people who identify themselves as homosexuals before achieving full maturity -- a process encouraged by many homosexual high school clubs.
The study PFOX was referring to was:
Risk Factors for Attempted Suicide in Gay and Bisexual Youth by Remafedi, Farrow, and Deisher, in Official Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, Pediatrics 87: 869-875 June 1991
And it wasn’t long after that that Wayne Besen of Truth Wins Out contacted one of the researchers:

Dr. Gary Remafedi Says ‘Ex-Gay’ Group Manipulated His Study And Should Immediately Take The Distortions Off Its Website
Of course, being the “Christians” that they are, they haven’t. (Note: this study is also referenced on their FAQ page.)

Which brings us to the latest portion of the 'PFOX abuse of research' story, which overlaps with another.

Enter one (former Principal) David Davies.

From Box Turtle Bulletin:
Davis outed a gay student to her parents, organized a “morality assembly”, and interrogated students about their orientation, and suspended students that were part of the “Gay Pride” movement.

Now the judge has issued
his opinion (pdf) and has awarded legal recovery to the plaintiffs. And Davis’homophobia cost the district $325,000 in legal fees and cost (plus a dollar to the plaintiff).
Quoting now from HBHM, who quotes from the opinion, with commentary:
Regrettably, Jane’s contact with Davis during her senior year may well have been her last interaction with a school administrator before her graduation. Instead of providing Jane with a positive experience in the public school system during her final year, Davis crushed her and brought her to tears. Davis’s conduct, in the capacity of a role model and authority figure, is particularly deplorable in light of studies which confirm the vulnerability of gay and lesbian students . . .

The next time some idiot (hello PFOX) ruminates as to the supposed harm of GSAs, please remind them of this incident.
So I went to go read the opinion, and as it turns out, the very next portion of the ruling that follows the above quoted part..
Davis’s conduct, in the capacity of a role model and authority figure, is particularly deplorable in light of studies which confirm the vulnerability of gay and lesbian students...
..then goes on to include this little gem:
"The demeaning of young gay and lesbian students in a school environment is detrimental not only to their psychological health and well-being, but also to their educational development. Indeed, studies demonstrate that ‘academic underachievement, truancy, and dropout are prevalent among homosexual youth and are the probable consequences of violence and verbal and physical abuse at school.’ Susanne M. Stronski Huwiler and Gary Remafedi, Adolescent Homosexuality, 33 REV. JUR. U.I.P.R. 151, 164 (1999)"
Yep, Gary Remafedi, the exact same researcher who’s findings, FOR A SECOND TIME NOW, have been found to be at direct odds with the claims of PFOX:
"Schools should not be encouraging teens to self-identify as gays, bisexuals or transgendered persons before they have matured. Sexual attractions are fluid and do not take on permanence until early adulthood. Rather than affirming teenagers as ‘gay’ through self-labeling, educators should affirm them as people worthy of respect and encourage teens to wait until adulthood before making choices about their sexuality. If teens are encouraged to believe that they are permanently ‘gay’ before they have had a chance to reach adulthood, their life choices are severely restricted and can result in depression."
As though the lasting and permanent effects of puberty are something to "identify" though one has a "choice" in the matter...and as though the only thing any responsible mentor (like Principal Davis) should do, is to demean gay youth by discouraging them from even acknowleging their own current, ongoing, and undeniable same-gender attraction(s) -- lest they "encourage" the "permanence" of a "gay identity."

Wake the kids, phone the neighbors, but most importantly, run for you lives.

And who can forget the MULTITUDE of persecuted ex-gay students, falling through the proverbial discriminitory ex-gay cracks in the mercilessly secular pro-anti-ex-gay public school system (bold mine):
Griggs also notes that schools with Gay Straight Alliance clubs are notorious for suppressing ex-gay organizations or individuals supporting tolerance for the ex-gay community. “GSA clubs and their teacher sponsors make schools unsafe for anyone who has rejected the ‘gay’ label in their lives or who believes in ex-gay equal rights. Our efforts to reach all students are typically met with hostility and violence. Time after time, we have faced hostile gay students and teachers ripping up our ex-gay materials or demanding that we be banned from distributing our materials on campuses.”
Boo hoo, wah wah, we just want to be left alone to ruin the lives of gay people in peace… Good God, she sounds just like Randy Thomas.

I’d ask if there’s something in the holy water, but It’s not like they drink it.

Anyway, to conclude, they both have a vested interest in demeaning gays. Thomas, and those of like-political ex-gay ilk, have to reinforce the belief that they made the right choice in “leaving homosexuality” (not to mention for the maintenence of their ex-gay careers as well). And Mrs. ‘perfect Christian mother’ Regina Griggs needs to know that she's not responsible for her own son's homosexuality (or so I assume...).

And that's where we and our "evil activist" GSA's come in:

Griggs, Thomas, Alan Chambers, and many if not most of their political-like, may not personally subscribe to the notion that “crimes against human-sexuality” are executable offenses. But if they ever get their way, it will be the most radical amongst them, that get their way, and so on.

And as long as the death threat of Leviticus 20:13 is not CONDEMNED as an unacceptable means of condemning homosexuality, then to my mind, the potential REALITY that we may someday be legally put to death for who we are, is automatically endorsed in its usage.

Oh, and FYI all ye blameless believers in, and repeaters of God’s holy hatred of homosexuality, negligent homicide is still HOMICIDE.

Thursday, July 24, 2008

Randy Thomas: "Still not gay"

[Randy Thomas] Interview - Exodus International Freedom Conference 2008


Anchor Darcel Grimes: A group promising to help bring gays and lesbians out of their lifestyles arrives in Ashville, and with the promise comes some controversy. The Exodus Conference is being held in Ridgecrest this week. News 13’s Charu Kumarhia is in the news center with more, Charu, Exodus has been here before…

Charu Kumarhia: That’s right Darcel, the last time was in 2005, the late Jerry Falwell spoke, and now Exodus is back, but there is an opposition group that’s having another conference at the same time.

Eric Didia: It was a very dark time of my life

Charu Kumarhia: 30 year old Eric Didia has quote “left the lifestyle.” He says a bad relationship with a man and a bout with Hepatitis B made him want to stop living as a gay man.

Eric Didia: God did not make me as a man to love another man. He made me as his servant.

Charu Kumarhia: Exodus holds a conference every year, telling attendees, you may not stop being attracted to the same sex, but you don’t have to act on it.

Randy Thomas: The barometer of success is not heterosexuality, it’s our faith in Christ. 16 years ago I was a proud out gay man. I had no shame, I did not live in a closet, I still don’t live in a closet. I tell people all the time, I came out of the closet and eventually found out I was in the wrong house.

Monroe Gilmour of Equality Ashville: We’re basically trying to be like the Better Business Bureau and say, somebody harmful’s come to town selling a product that don’t work.

Charu Kumarhia: Equality Ashville is sponsoring an alternative event throughout Exodus, they want folks to know, you’re ok, just the way you are.

Monroe Gilmour: You can perhaps, live that--what they’re saying, for awhile, but it is going to come out eventually.

Charu Kumarhia: Didia says he isn’t ashamed of who he is or what he’s done, but he knows, he does want to change.

Eric Didia: …is that he didn’t make us to be this way, we’ve chosen. Many of our choices -- and where we are today -- is because of our choices.

Charu Kumarhia: And Exodus staff tell us that demand for their services is high, they say that all of their conferences fill up. But Equality Ashville believes that’s because there’s still a lot of shame associated with homosexuality.

In the news center, Charu Kumarhia, News 13.
To isolate from above:

Randy Thomas: The barometer of success is not heterosexuality, it’s our faith in Christ. 16 years ago I was a proud out gay man. I had no shame, I did not live in a closet, I still don’t live in a closet. I tell people all the time, I came out of the closet and eventually found out I was in the wrong house.
Charu Kumarhia: And Exodus staff tell us that demand for their services is high, they say that all of their conferences fill up. But Equality Ashville believes that’s because there’s still a lot of shame associated with homosexuality.

Now compare the above with what Thomas says on page 97 in the 2006 Exodus book "God’s Grace and the monster Homosexual Next Door."

Under the section entitled "Overcoming Shame" (bold mine):
A second profound need for most homosexuals is the need to overcome shame. How often do you hear of people dealing with homosexuality talk about “coming out of the closet”? You hear it often, no doubt.

The problem with this symbol is that it reframes the debate over homosexuality as one of coming out of culturally imposed silence and in embracing the politically correct truth that they are “gay.” The homosexual is told, wrongly, that “coming out” is somehow empowering to them. But as said earlier, homosexuality isn’t ultimately about identifying with a subculture or naming oneself as gay; it first and foremost is a relational issue. If your loved one has been led to believe that by “coming out of the closet” his problems will lessen, he’ll likely soon see how wrong that is. In or out of the closet, the issue is still about overcoming alienation and learning to enjoy stable relationships. And stable relationships in the gay community is practically an oxymoron.

What homosexuals find when they “come out of the closet” is that they were in the wrong house to being with. The whole premise of “the closet” is one of shame and rejection. Shame and rejection are the true enemies of someone seeking to walk away from homosexuality. Confronting these two issues right off the bat and continuing to guard against them consistently is one of the most important strategies of walking with someone to help them overcome homosexuality.
Got that? The solution isn’t in "coming out of the closet," but in abandoning the need for the concept of "closet."

Gobbledygook: nonsense or jargon: language that is difficult or impossible to understand, especially nonsense or technical jargon

However, one clear thing so far would seem to be that Thomas' "faith in Christ" has led him to the conclusion that he is somehow now qualified to pronounce that we are all shamefully incapable of maintaining stable relationships...

...who ever we are...whatever relationships we have...and...with whomever we have them with...

And as Randy Thomas notes on his blog featuring the above video (dated July 23, 2008):

An asides, today is *the* sixteenth anniversary of my decision to walk away from my gay identity and ideology.

Sixteen years is a long time and I personally attest that I am still not gay.

Which, of course, by his own words in the newscast, has nothing to do with not being gay! Again:

"The barometer of success is not heterosexuality, it’s our faith in Christ."

Which is also in step with the "Who We Are" page of Exodus International (italics in original):
Exodus is a nonprofit, interdenominational Christian organization promoting the message of Freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ.

Doublespeak: evasive, ambiguous language that is intended to deceive or confuse.

He also says in that same posting (hyperlink mine):
The "truth" is that while you may have some who tried our way of life and bailed out for various reasons … some of us did not abandon our journey.

So if Exodus offers freedom from homosexuality, but not a successful destination to heterosexuality, the question then becomes, what exactly did they "bail out" on, if not a journey to nowhere?

Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Alan Chambers: gays not responsible for gas prices / air quality.

Being the discriminating connoisseur of anti-gay rhetoric that I am, I recently discovered a post that Alan Chambers has up on his blog, linking to an article he has penned for the Orlando Sentinel called: “You choose: Save gas or your life.”

It’s actually more of a glorified letter to the editor, and to be fair, I found it perfectly well written and articulately expressive, but it had nothing to do with gay, ex-gay, homoSEXual, or even the “culture war” --which is what I was expecting.

Fortunately though, it wasn’t until I was nearly through carefully-reading the brief article that I realized this. At which point I noticed that there were some thirty-odd comments to the story, which immediately drew my curiosity.

Two things.

First, it’s a story in itself that he’s not making the "evil gay agenda" a story. A modest one, but a story. But that’s not the story.

Second, I don’t normally go the gratuitous route when it comes to picking on my anti-gay nemeses, such as when it comes to mithpellings, not the goodest of grammar, or any other host of easily make-funable-of.. ... ..things.

However, these comments are too profoundly entertaining not to share.

To get the full impact, click over and read the whole thing with the comments. It’s worth it.

For the lazy version:

An excerpt of the article itself, by Alan Chambers:

I drive an old Mercedes and have to use premium gas. At $4.23 a gallon (just filled up Monday), a tank is approaching $100 for me. The mornings have been overcast and seemingly cooler, so I decided to lose the air conditioner, opting for the fresh air that comes from rolling the windows down.

[short story shorter…]

So, I'm frustrated. Mad even. We are getting savaged at the pump and attempting to save a few dollars by putting the windows down while driving, which means breathing hazardous fumes and risking your health and the health of anyone riding with you.

And now a sampling of some of the merciless comments that followed (keeping in mind (at least as of this posting) none of which contain any mention of Chambers’ affiliation with Exodus):

(P.S. I don't think I've ever even seen this much anger directed toward him over at Ex-Gay Watch!)

-If I had this mans problems I believe I would stay at home and call my mama.

-Good god, what a drama queen this man is! His very -life- is in danger?

-Put this guy out of his misery! How would you like to have to work and live around this guy?

-my grandkids whine less than this guy.

-Where do you think your cars A/C gets its air from ya ****!

-I'm sure smoke from a cig inside another car was so overwhelming you nearly fainted…Are you the kind of guy that jogs behind a bus and gripes about the guy you ran past because he was smoking? What a sensitive fellow you are. It is obvious you will never get your nose in a real sweet spot. What a panzy.

-And here I thought it was going to be a legitimate opinion regarding the life or death choice to bike to work (on our dangerous and unfriendly roads)as so many news articles have advised, in order to save on gas.


*deep breath*


-...Knock Knock...
...Who's there?
...Real life...
...Go away, and don't come back until this wussy has seen his last sterile day...

-This guy is a nothing but a baby who need to be out of his misery!

-This guy whines like my 7 yr old niece.

-this guys car puts out more pollution than 50 smokers and he is complaining

-My God, how did I ever survive as a child? My dads car had 4/40 AC, no seat belts, a steel dash board, and he smoked a cigar.

-Agreed - I too thought it was about alternative transportation. After listening to all this whining I think I will slit my wrists.

-Oh my goodness! Your Mercedes hangs around your neck like an anchor now that premium gas is so expensive? […] In short, I believe you to be the shining example of the continued softening and "whimpification" of our society. Cowboy up, softie!

-Here's a thought for this JERK...TOUGH! Other people have rights just like you! You can complain when they jump in your mercedes and light up...until then…

-I save gas by riding my bicycle to work along side of everything this whiney beotch was nearly killed by.

-Know what the differrence is between a Mercedes and a porcupine???

A porcupine has the pr i c k s on the outside.

-Wow. No, I mean, WOW. What a Mo!! Here's a thought. Get off your fat **** and walk or bike to work.

Shifting gears now..

So this is what comes to mind for me. Depending on which version of the Bible you use, one of the verses used to condemn us [we homosexuals (but usually only we male homosexuals)] as sinful, is 1 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV):

9) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

…and one of the versions of that Bible verse includes the following (KJV):

9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

Forget the “homosexual” part for now, the important part is that we’re being condemned by the same verse that condemns the "effeminate" part. But I don’t mean "effeminate" in the "effeminate acting" way.

I mean to use the term "effeminate" in the spineless, lily-livered, morally-flimsy, luke-warm, cowardice, Biblical sense. In the way that this article from the Purple Pew elucidates:

Earlier I had written my understanding of “nor effeminate” based on the Matthewe’s Bible of 1549, the Geneva Bible of 1560 and Webster’s dictionary, which states a "weakness marked by excessive refinement"; therefore, the word effeminate here has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Wesley’s commentary on “nor the effeminate” in I Corinthians (6:9) is this: “Nor the effeminate - who live in an easy, indolent way; taking up no cross, enduring no hardship. But how is this? These good-natured, harmless people are ranked with idolators and sodomites!” (a)

See, an effeminate person - whether male or female - is spiritually lazy and morally weak - usually due to an excessive lifestyle of luxury and/or pleasure. They do not take up their cross to follow Christ in word, deed, or in truth.

In that context, Chambers’ article, and as 'verified' by (and yes, I'm using the term loosely) the responses to it, seems to exemplify the meaning of 1 Corinthians 6:9, that the "effeminate [shall not inherit the kingdom of God]."

But as Exodus likes to put it:

In 1 Corinthians 6:9–11, Paul gives a list of all kinds of sinners that will not inherit the kingdom of God, including those that practice homosexuality. But he goes on to say, "and that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." Some Corinthian Christians had formerly been homosexuals, but now were counted among the saints. Now, that's good news indeed!

Which is an even MORE perfect example of the spineless, lily-livered, morally-flimsy, luke-warm, cowardly, AKA "effeminate" behavior -- of the staff at Exodus International, most notably its president, Alan Chambers -- that the Bible condemns.

Let's break it down:

In 1 Corinthians 6:9–11, Paul gives a list of all kinds of sinners that will not inherit the kingdom of God, including those that practice homosexuality.

Except we’re not talking about "practicing homosexuality," we’re talking about homosexuality as in same-gender attraction ITSELF -- as in the HUMAN SEXUALITY of same gender attraction.

Some Corinthian Christians had formerly been homosexuals, but now were counted among the saints.

Well that’s lovely, but "counted among the saints" doesn’t mean the same thing as "became heterosexual," which is what you imply, but fail to clarify.

In addition, by highlighting the ever ambiguous "and that is what some of you were" portion of the Corinthians verse, and in light of Exodus' political motives and connections with Focus on the Family, such calculated obfuscation is clearly subtext meant to portray to the general public that same-gender attraction -- in and of itself -- is a choice.
So you get the point. And this kind of code-speak is typical of the anti-gay industry crowd.

Alan Chambers and the Exodus International staff et al, should get over their own “effeminacy” moral flimsitude before condemning the rest of us with the same Biblical verse that rightly condemns themselves - IN THEIR USE OF IT.

They make a lovely threesome.

Sally Kern

Oklahoma State Representative

"In my Bible, that has, the God of love, on every page, who said, homosexuality is a sin, it is an abomination..."

"I honestly think it’s the biggest threat even, that our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam, which I think is a big threat, okay."

Matt Barber: Sally, let me ask you this, do you hate homosexuals?

Sally Kern: No sir, I do not, I don't hate anyone. As you know, God is God of love, and as a Christian, with His spirit within me, I am to, exemplify the character of Christ, by the Holy Spirit within me, and one the fruit of the Spirit is not hate, it's love.

Iris Robinson

Member of the British Parliament (MP)

"What I say I base on biblical pronouncements, based on God’s word...I cannot think of anything more sickening than a child being abused. It is comparable to the act of homosexuality. I think they are all comparable. I feel totally repulsed by both."

"I have nothing against any homosexual. I love them..."

Mohsen Yahyavi

Iranian Politician

"Homosexuals deserve to be executed or tortured and possibly both..."

Iran "loves" homosexuals too, just like the Bible says to...

Leviticus 20:13: If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman...They must be put to death:

Friday, July 11, 2008

Gather 'round believers. Blast from the past...

Her voice is heaven sent, and the refrain is to die for.

The audio on this isn’t the best, so you may want to shut off all extraneous sound, such as fans, tv’s, children, etc.

Dakoda Motor Co.

Grey Clouds:

BTW, every single song on that album was a hit (IMO). Several of which you can find on their My Space Page.

Thursday, July 10, 2008

Today Now!: How To Pretend You Give A Shit About The Election

As usual, some quotes to die for. Make sure to read the visuals.

Rick Scarborough: Sodomy = Dishonesty

I apologize for the lateness of this report, but I think the leap of "logic" quote and ensuing extrapolation from it are definitely noteworthy.

I caught this Janet Folger interview with Rick Scarborough of Vision America about a month ago while driving in the car.

@ the 12:18 mark:
Janet Folger: Tell us what you were mentioning to me before the air, before the program, about, well, we want to be insured, if you don’t have insurance, here’s the way to get it. Go ahead.

Rick Scarborough: So listen, homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle. Therefore homosexuals, and this is just going to burn people that disagree. But homosexuals by definition are immoral people. They’re breaking the breaking the moral codes and standards of God.

Now, if a man will commit the act of sodomy, you can pretty well decide he will do about anything, include lying.

A man has AIDS, he lives in Texas, he can’t get insurance anywhere, all he’s got to do is find another man to marry him, and they do that by going to California. They don’t have to honor the marriage, they don't have to stay in the marriage - they go to California, get married, come back and demand that the husband/wife, which ever other role the person the party is playing, then puts him on his insurance policy, and some company has just embraced a $300,000 doctor bill, because they’re now married, and you have to insure the spouse.

You will see, in my opinion, thousands of these illicit marriages, performed, just for such rationales as that. Demanding that their immorality, and the consequences be covered by someone else’s insurance.
Now, the buffoonery here is apparent to anyone with a working brain. His point though, is that the corrupt use of marriage is gay specific, specifically because gays are corrupt. But only those of us male gays who happen to have anal sex. You lesbian and straight couples who "commit" sodomy are perfectly in the clear.

In addition, Folger has a treasure trove of radio interviews that are in need of assessment. INCLUDING a listed interview with Paul Cameron (under Homosexuality & Marriage).