Sally Kern: It really ticks them off when I say, I believe they have the right to choose that lifestyle, because they have, you know, bombarded me -- we don’t have a choice, you know, we were born this way.[Begin Transcript]
MATT BARBER: Homosexual Anti-Christian Hate Groups Attack Christian Lawmaker. I’m Matt Barber, CWA’s policy director for cultural issues. On the line with Oklahoma State Representative Sally Kern, and also on the line with president of Americans for Truth about Homosexuality, Peter LaBarbera. Now welcome to both of you.
SALLY KERN: Thank You.
PETER LABARBERA: Hey Matt.
MATT BARBER: Representative Kern, now I understand that you made a speech, a speech that was open to the public, in which you addressed the very dangerous, homosexual agenda, which is infiltrating our public schools, and which is really destroying the moral fiber of our country, and you have just been under tremendous assault, from multiple homosexual hate groups, and from other left wing activists, for your statements, is that right?
SALLY KERN: That’s absolutely correct, yes.
MATT BARBER: Now, one of the things I’ve noticed is that these groups are spinning this, as if to suggest that you somehow got caught, doing something secretive, something that you would not have otherwise said publicly, and that they somehow, infiltrated this speech that you gave and caught you saying something that you would not normally publicly say. Did you say anything there that you would not normally say from the floor of the State House, or in front of any group, or any media entity?
SALLY KERN: I did not. And you have it exactly right, they keep saying, you know, she was at a secret meeting, you know, she didn’t think, you know, her comments would get out, and uh, this was a public meeting. And had they even come up to me and said, hey we’re going to record your talk, that wouldn’t have changed it at all. I would have said the very same things. For one thing, I’ll be honest with you, I’m just, you know, I don’t think in terms of, and maybe I need to, like Scripture says, I need to become ‘little wiser like a serpent here, but, it never would have dawned on me that, I would’ve, you know, have been, being taped, in order to use it against me. I just don’t, uh, and like when I used the certain phrases itjstrlly set them off, I was not meaning that, in a sense to, you know, attack them.
MATT BARBER: Are you referring to, I’ve read some accounts, that are suggesting that you, said, uh, homosexuals are terrorists.
SALLY KERN: Yes, and I was not calling them…
MATT BARBER: Did you say that?…
SALLY KERN: I said that homosexuality, in my opinion, is a bigger threat to this nation, than terrorism. And I was just using a metaphor, just trying to make a point, so that my, fellow Republican colleagues, and especially, the church, would wake up and realize, that, they’re a threat to the moral fiber of this nation. The traditional family, and traditional marriage, one man and one woman. And that has been the bedrock of society for thousands of years. And, you know, the family is the first institution that God established. And they’re trying to tear that down, and that will not have healthy or positive consequences, for, our nation, or any nation, that wholeheartedly, embraces homosexuality. And that’s all I meant.
MATT BARBER: Now Pete, you’re there in Illinois, about what, fifty miles from Deerfield Illinois. Just one of the latest examples of just how homosexual activism, and embracing homosexual conduct, is harmful, tell us a little bit about, what we’ve been addressing at Deerfield High School, assigned, this book Angels in America. Which is really just racist, homosexual, pornographic smut. They assigned this to kids there in a Senior AP class, at Deerfield High School. Tell us a little bit about that, and how that all ties into what we’re talking about here Pete.
PETER LABARBERA: Yeah, and I think this is the key point, obviously Representative Kern is trying to make the point that this is an aggressive lobby that threatens America, and threatens children. And who would have thought, that we would be facing a situation, in which a play, Angels in America, which features the most vile descriptions of homosexual sodomy and blasphemy. I think there’s a phrase, suck my blank, Mother Teresa. The F word is all over it, it’s a glorification of homosexuality. This is being justified as taught to high school students, in an AP English Class. In the same vein, Matt, we’ve got, toddlers being taught to equate homosexuality with, love. All these children’s books, that, teach, very very very young children, that homosexuality is about love. This is an aggressive threat that most Americans are not aware of how great it is.
SALLY KERN: Exactly…
PETER LABARBERA: And this is the point she was trying to make.
MATT BARBER: Well, Sally, you are to be commended for taking a stand here, for exercising the kind of courage that it takes, and you know I think the proof is in the pudding here, the reaction, that you have received and, the hate speech, that has been lodged against you, by the radical left wing, and by these militant homosexual groups, hate groups like the Human Rights Campaign, I know, they’ve taken the lead on it, and several other groups. Really, they’re making your point for you.
SALLY KERN: Exactly…
MATT BARBER: They are absolutely opposed to the First Amendment, they’re opposed to free speech, their actions are anti-American, and you…
PETER LABARBERA: And they’re trying to destroy her.
MATT BARBER: And they’re trying to destroy you, politically, personally, and-and I understand, that, out of some the communications that you’ve received, that it’s actually put you in fear, for your personal safety. Is that correct?
SALLY KERN: Well, it has, on one hand, yes, I have had some that, you know, have, have made me fearful, but, I’m not dwelling on the fear, and I will not let fear, control my life, and let me just say this, I would-received a call yesterday, from someone who’s been, in the heat of this battle, for many years, long time ago, and got such encouraging words, and was encouraged to, go to God’s Word, look up every verse, that has to do, with faith, overcoming fear, and not being afraid. And I tell ya, I’m doing that, I’m making a list of them, I’m writing those verses out. I will be praying them over my family. I will be having prayer with my family. I have the most supportive husband, I’m so blessed in that regard. But I will not, and I can not let fear overcome me, but, they are trying to intimidate me, and to make me fearful. And so, by God’s grace, I’m standing against that fear.
PETER LABARBERA: To clarify, but the Department of Public Safety did assign you a bodyguard, because of the email threats that you received, right?
SALLY KERN: That is correct.
MATT BARBER: Now, speaking of verses, I-let me just read one here real quick. Matthew 5:11-12, actually two verses here. I think really en-encapsulates what you’re going through here. It says, ‘blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven. For in the same way they persecuted the prophets, who were before you.’ And it strikes me that that is just, perfectly applicable to your situation right here. You took a stand for Christ. You took a stand for Biblical truth. And you are suffering, tremendous persecution for that stand. You’re not backing down a lick, which, I love that kind of moxie, so congratulations to you fors-standing up to these bullies. And that’s what, that’s what they are, and I…
SALLY KERN: That’s right.
MATT BARBER: The homosexual lobby loves to use this, these, these, uh, terms about, you know, bullying, and you know, they’re they bullies, they’re the ones that are, bullying you and you’re, you’re standing firm…
SALLY KERN: Yes, they want tolerance for their lifestyle, but they offer no tolerance, if you disagree with them.
MATT BARBER: Yeah, bunch of hypocrites, uh…
PETER LABARBERA: Matt, we just had a, a situation last night, I went to speak, uh, Charlene Cothran, who you’ve had on the show, a former lesbian, once a gay activist, now she’s out reaching homosexuals for Christ. She was scheduled to speak at a restaurant, the Gay Liberation Network, which is a very radical group in Chicago, uh, called the-the restaurant in Rockford Illinois where she was to speak, and the re-they-they said they were going to have, van loads of people coming, suggesting that they were going to have, you know, tons of people coming to the restaurant, and the restaurant owner cancelled the event.
SALLY KERN: M,hm.
PETER LABARBERA: But they’re-they’re all about intimidating people. That’s what the gay lobby thrives on…
SALLY KERN: …Definitely. Exactly, I was supposed to give the invocation at a-a meeting, I wo-I don’t-name--the place, and they called on Tuesday I think and cancelled.
MATT BARBER: Well see and-and that’s come, all of that, everything we’re seeing here, comes as good news, to the, these homosexual activists. Because they know, they’re fearful, of an open dialogue. They’re fearful of a debate, because, we happen to have logic, truth, [SALLY KERN: Right.] reason, Scripture, God’s Word, natural law, biological law, all of these things on our side, [SALLY KERN: Exactly.] all they have is empty, and the hollow rhetoric and hyperbole, so they, in order to get their propaganda, to foist their propaganda upon, especially children, because as you, as you mentioned in your speech, that’s their primary target right now. [SALLY KERN: Yes.] In order to foist that propaganda on people, they have to shut down open dialogue, open debate. [SALLY KERN: Right.] And the only way they can do it through use of these types of Gestapo tactics. Which we’ve seen.
SALLY KERN: I was supposed to do a tape and interview this morning, for a local program that comes on, Sunday morning, and uh, they called yesterday and said, some homosexual group here Oklahoma called and said they wanted equal time, and of course the producer of this program, they already had the program set out, and they didn’t have time, so they called and cancelled, me, you know.
PETER LABARBERA: Well, and also, you know, you’re in a state where, didn’t the marriage amendment pass by over 70%, uh, Sally so... [SALLY KERN: I think 76, 78...] I mean, the fact is-is that Oklahomans do not support, the organized homosexual agenda, [SALLY KERN: Exactly, exactly.]and they’re trying to make an example of you, to build power in your state.
SALLY KERN: Exactly, and see, there’s a climate, in our state right now, that is embolding them, and it is the fact that we have a state senator who is running, who’s uh, Democrat, and very, uh, pro, homosexual. He is running against Senator Inhofe, who’s a wonderful Republican, Senator, and the State Senator is getting all kinds of support from out in California and everything, but he’s not letting the people in Oklahoma know it, but the homosexual groups here are really encouraged by that, and then the fact that our governor, appointed an openly homosexual, gentleman, to uh, the Corporation Commission, and he has to run for the seat in November, and so they are just, you know, really emboldened, and then I think the fact that they believe, Obama is going to win the Presidential Election, they think the floodgates are going to open for them, and so they are just, you know, dancing in the streets would be a, that’s another metaphor.
MATT BARBER: Right. Dancing in the streets around their golden calf.
SALLY KERN: Yeah.
MATT BARBER: Yeah, now I understand Sally that they’ve also targeted your family to a degree. Some of the homosexual blogs out there, are saying that you have, an, openly homosexual, son.
SALLY KERN: ‘Swhat they’re saying, uh huh.
MATT BARBER: Is there any truth to that, first of all, [SALLY KERN: No.] even if it if, there ok, so it’s not true?
SALLY KERN: It is not true. And they’ve even put out there on the blogs, an account that took place in 1989, in uh, Shawnee, Oklahoma, where a gentleman that has the same name, Jesse Kern, the middle name is different, but they didn’t bother to check. They just put it out there that, you know, was arrested for three counts of felony, and, one horrible…
PETER LABARBERA: Ow, Jeez.
MATT BARBER: Jus-it’s just an open smear campaign, it’s ju-disgusting.
SALLY KERN: …In 1989...
PETER LABARBERA: I understand talking to you before, that, a reporter for a TV station, actually asked you at the end of the interview, is it true that your son is gay? Did this actually happen?
SALLY KERN: Yes, I was blindsided, and uh, you know it took me, it-it really took my by surprise, and what I said to her was, I don’t think so, and that was not a, like, oh gosh, I hope he’s not. It wasn’t that kind, you know, and maybe I, I should have said, absolutely no, because, you know, my heart I know he’s not, but I was just so blindsided, and uh…
PETER LABARBERA: Well you don’t have anything to apologize for, that is beyond the pale of journalistic ethics. And it sounds to me like the journalism in Oklahoma, should examine itself, rather than examining you.
SALLY KERN: Well, we’re going to be looking into uh, if there’s any recourse, because uh, you know, it’s been put in print. In 1989 my son was in the seventh grade, we lived many many miles away from Oklahoma. And they don’t bother to check out facts if they think it will further, you know their...[MATT BARBER: Radical agenda.] ...radical agenda, which they adamantly admit--say they don’t have, but uh.
MATT BARBER: Well, let me ask you this. If your son were homosexual, would you love him any less?
SALLY KERN: Oh listen, I would love my son. I’m proud of him, he’s a talented, gifted musician, and he has made me so proud. He was interviewed. He got a call, yesterday by uh, our biggest newspaper here in the nation, in the state-excuse me, and they asked him that question, and he was so ticked off at it, first he said, you know, I really don’t know what my sexuality has to with any of this, but I’ll just tell you right off, I am straight, I’m not homosexual. Matter of fact I have taken a vow of celibacy, I did it when I was in the, a senior in high school, and at that point the reporter said, you mean you’ve never had sex? And he says, that’s right. You know, he still has his purity ring on.
MATT BARBER: Saving himself for marriage?
SALLY KERN: Well, yes, I hope so, one of these days. He is 32.
PETER LABARBERA: That’s a crime right?
SALLY KERN: Yeah, he is 32.
PETER LABARBERA: How fascinating that the homosexuals, and now even the media, would use alleged homosexuality of somebody else, as a weapon to hurt people. I mean, this movement is just surreal, the depths to which they will go to hurt Christians who oppose them.
MATT BARBER: It absolutely is Pete, an-and now, we know, we need to make sure and differentiate here between, the militant homosexual activist lobby, which I’m referring to now as anti-Christian hate groups, because that’s what they are. [SALLY KERN: Yes.] They hate Christianity, they hate God, they hate the Bible, and what it stands for, and so they’re out to destroy that. That which our Nation is rooted in, our Founding Fathers, and our Founding Documents, are all rooted in Scripture and Biblical truth They want to [SALLY KERN: Exactly.] destroy that and introduce a leftist secular humanist morally relative worldview that’s says anything goes, creating a kind of a sexual androgyny, where there are no clear distinctions between male and female, right and wrong. And so that’s what see the militant homosexual lobby doing, as compared to, and separated from, people who, self-identify, themselves, based on their, [SALLY KERN: Exactly.] their sexual behaviors. People who are ensnared, by the homosexual lifestyle. Sally, let me ask you this, do you hate homosexuals?
SALLY KERN: No sir, I do not, I don’t hate anyone. As you know, God is God of love, and as a Christian, with His spirit within me, I am to, exemplify the character of Christ, by the Holy Spirit within me, and one the fruit of the Spirit is not hate, it’s love. And I don’t hate them now, I disagree with them, but I don’t hate them. And you know, to me, Matt and Peter, that’s the heart of this issue. It’s not about bullying, it’s about speech, ok, because see anybody that disagrees with them, they don’t want them to be heard. They want to silence our right to free speech. And just disagreeing with someone, does not make you a hate monger. Someone sent me an email yesterday, I thought it was so good, they said they went in on uh, Google, and typed in “a bigger threat than terrorism,” and they said about ten things showed up, one of which, down low at the list, was homosexuality. You know what the first one was? Obesity. And so the gentleman said, you know, if you talk about the evils and the harm of obesity, the threat that it is to an individual’s health, are you saying you hate all obese people? No one would think were saying that. [MATT BARBER: Right.] And when you do the same thing about the harms and the evil of the activist homosexual agenda, and the harm that, the physical harm, the health consequences, of homosexuality, you mention those, with facts to support them, you are engaging in hate speech. Because they don’t want the truth to be known. They don’t want to deal with it themselves. It really ticks them off when I say, I believe they have the right to choose that lifestyle, because they have, you know, bombarded me -- we don’t have a choice, you know, we were born this way. In my Bible, that has, the God of love, on every page, who said, homosexuality is a sin, it is an abomination, a God of love would never make someone, like that, and then condemn them, for this.
MATT BARBER: Well we are the all born into sin, we’re all fallen nature.
SALLY KERN: [talking over Matt] Exactly…Exactly…Right.
MATT BARBER: People all have various temptations. But just because somebody has a temptation that feels natural, does not mean, that it is not sin to engage that temptation.
Well Pete, I’m going to ask you to stay on the line here. Representative Sally Kern, Oklahoma State Representative, I want to thank you [SALLY KERN: Thank you, Matt.] for coming on with us today, and I want to thank you for the stand that you’re taking, and the courage that you are exhibiting here. You’re really doing Christians around the country, and really around the world, proud, and--other law makers need to sit up and take note, and I would hope that they would follow your example, and exhibit the same kind of courage, that you are exhibiting in taking on this militant homosexual lobby, and helping to try to reestablish Biblical principles in public policy, and throughout our wider culture. So thank you so much for being with us, and thank you so much for your stand.
SALLY KERN: You’re very welcome, and it’s an encouragement to know that there are groups like Concerned Women for America that are out there, uh, praying for me, and uh, have my backside, and I-I really appreciate that.
MATT BARBER: Well God bless, thank you.
SALLY KERN: God bless you too.
PETER LABARBERA: Thank you Sally.
SALLY KERN: Thank you.
MATT BARBER: Alright now Pete, I asked you to stay on, because, Representative Kern has been, continuously attacked, I’ve-understand that there are quite a few, law makers, that have-have come to her defense, and that are actually supporting her, but there are a number who are not, including the Democrat Governor of Oklahoma, Brad Henry, who came out with really an inappropriate statement, an offensive statement, condemning Representative Kern, and uh, I just wanted to ask you, first of all, what do you think about that?
PETER LABARBERA: For the Democratic Governor to jump on the bandwagon and attack this woman, and let’s remember Matt, there has not been, she has not received an actual copy of the speech in full. All the attacks are based on a redacted version that was published on Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund’s website, so she hasn’t even heard the whole speech. She told me she gave the same speech to-four separate times, and never heard a complaint from a constituent, and even the media has relied on this homosexual redacted version of the speech, to do all their stories. There’s so many outrages here, and I, I really hope that people of faith and, conservatives across the country defend this woman, because, if they take her down, they’re only going to set their sites on somebody else.
MATT BARBER: Well, we’re going to ask people listening right now to do just that. To call the Governor’s office, there in Oklahoma, Governor Brad Henry, at [If you're that interested in calling, you can listen to the recording]. Let him know how you feel about him jumping on the bandwagon with these anti-Christian homosexual hate groups, and maligning, this fine woman and this fine legislator. Also they can go to their website and fill out a form email, it’s at glb.ok.gov, g-l-b dot o-k dot g-o-v, and there’s a way to contact the governor through a form email, and I know Pete, you’re going to be putting on out some information on this on your website, as well, and-and if anybody else wants to get further information on this from your website, where can they go?
PETER LABARBERA: Yes, uh, we’re going to publish some of the hate letters that she received, and they’re awful Matt, the most vile letters. Our website is Americans for truth dot o-r-g, Americans for truth dot org.
MATT BARBER: And finally, let’s just ask everyone listening right now to forward this information to their friends and family, and for everybody to come together, and pray, that this uh, this fine woman will continue to have the courage, and strength, that can come only from God, and uh to continue to stand firm in this.
Representative Kern has asked that people not send information directly to her, or letters of support directly to her, so we’re asking, that people contact their own United States Representative, or their Senator, and ask them to support Oklahoma State Representative Kern in this, as she is just is just being assailed by the left in this, and to offer their vocal support of her, and for her right to free speech, and for her right to the free religious expression and-and uh really, all things American. So that’s what we’re asking.
Well Pete, thanks so much for being uh, with us today as well, and uh, please let us know as you get updates on this, and uh, we’ll continue to inform our listeners as to what is going on with this uh, unfortunate situation.
PETER LABARBERA: Yes uh, let’s come to the defense of this woman, she’s obviously--they’re trying to destroy her as part of their overall plan to win acceptance across the country.
MATT BARBER: Thank you Pete.