Ice Cream

By John Corvino, columnist, 365gay.com
12.12.2008

Friends with the enemy

(Nice thought, eh?)

Glenn Stanton is a friend of mine. He’s also badly wrong about same-sex marriage, and I tell him so—frequently, publicly, and sharply.

Glenn has written about our relationship in the January issue of Christianity Today, where he describes us as “highly unlikely but dear friends.” It’s a good description.

Some background:

Glenn Stanton works for Focus on the Family, and has published a book called “Marriage on Trial.”

In that book, Glenn Stanton cites the Dutch Study to portray gay men as non-monogamous, despite the fact that this study required its participants to be non-monogamous.

From page 65,

Monogamy in male homosexual relationships is difficult to sustain, even in long-term relationships [10] And if we can’t expect monogamy of homosexual males in marriage, the social-norms bar gets lowered for everyone, making it even more difficult to expect in of heterosexual males.

And what does that footnote [10] include? The Dutch Study, a study that REQUIRED its participants to be non-monogamous.

Glenn Stanton thinks it’s ok to lie, and John Corvino thinks that Glenn Stanton’s lying is acceptable, and 365gay.com thinks Corvino’s approval of Stanton’s dishonesty is acceptable.

In addition, from page 24 of Marriage on Trial:

Question 3. Shouldn’t two people who love one another be allowed to commit themselves to one another?

Answer. Yes. But we don’t’ always call it marriage. Parents commit themselves to their children, but they aren’t married. Friends love and commit themselves to each other, but they aren’t married. Coworkers, athletes and soldiers can even love each other and enjoy great commitment, but we don’t call it marriage.

In other words, if you're gay, you're too stupid to know that your love is any different than that between a parent or child, or athletes, or coworkers, or soldiers, or moms and dads, or brothers and sisters, or pupils and coworkers, etc., etc., etc.

But hopefully, if people like Glenn Stanton surreptitiously dance around the subject like that, no one will notice that what they're really saying is that gay people are just too stupid to know the difference between their romantic relationships, and their relationships with their parents, or anyone else for that matter. But don't tell gay people that, they'll get offended, and start persecuting us for our "deeply held moral beliefs."

So thank you John Corvino, for giving credence to the notion that we should overlook the actions of “friends” -- who promote for a living -- the idea that we are blithering idiots when it comes to recognizing romance.

And now we move on to the Glenn Stanton portion of the articles (apparently this is a tandem effort). Oh, and By the way, Glenn Stanton, this isn’t about how I don’t like you being friends with a gay guy, it’s about how you’re a lying sack of shit, and about how your token "gay" friend isn’t calling you out on that fact.

Moving right along…

Glenn Stanton’s three page article (the one Corvino acknowledges above) has this statement on each page:

“Publicly arguing for traditional marriage is worth it even if I don't change many minds.”

Long story short, Glenn Stanton’s mind can never be changed, because Glenn Stanton could never be wrong. The only goal, according to Glenn Stanton, is to change other people’s minds.

In other words, FUCK YOU John Corvino, and all of the stupid little gay people like you who you represent, who are "less than" him.

But, as it would seem to me, by “publicly arguing” with you, it helps him to understand how to not be so “fuck you-ish” with his words.

John discovers things about me that surprise him, such as that I can believe the world is older than 6,000 years and remain an evangelical in good standing.

Where exactly does Adam and Eve fit into that "good standing" Mr. Stanton? You’re not confirming anything here, all you’re doing is demonstrating error in the perception of you.

You did the same thing with me.

All I ask is that you show your work. How old is the Earth? What parameters and/or what criteria do you use to determine this? Etc.

If you’re going to make the claim that your beliefs are based on the Bible, and then claim that you believe in an “old Earth” theology, then be willing to defend it and explain it.

I’ll accept it. I’ll say so right now, I’ll accept it, but spit it the fuck out and don’t be coy about it. Don’t just drop it like a bomb and expect it to be something that should be accepted at face value. Your friends at Focus on the Family don’t sing that same tune, and we know it, so why take us for that ride?

If after all this time, that’s the best you can do, then to me it shows you have something to hide. Again, if you don’t want that to be the perception, then open up and explain yourself.

It's an interesting point that prompted me to ask our audience why many Christians, as well as Scripture-twisting revisionists, never address either the Creation narrative or Jesus' clear affirmation of that narrative in the Gospels. These pericopes show the centrality of male and female to the family anthropologically, sociologically, and theologically, teaching us that male and female bear the image of God in unique, essential ways. Humanity and the family need male and female to need each other.

OMG. Spare me out of my fricking mind. If at this point, you are STILL maintaining the notion that somehow the anomaly of “gayness” or “homosexuality” or of “same-gender attraction” is trying to DO AWAY WITH MALE AND FEMALE ITSELF, then you, Glenn Stanton, are a hateful bigot for the sheer sake of enjoying it.

Good god man, "male and female?" Do you really think God "anointed" you with the notion to hate what you're already hard-wired to hate? Do you think the rewards of Heaven are that easy?

I'm not saying that that the answer is difficult, but seriously, take a closer look.
---
This part, however, takes the cake:

I clarified my opposition to all sexual relationships that are not between a husband and wife. But I also said that whenever one human denies herself for the good of another and dedicates herself to the other's value, that was a praiseworthy thing. True selflessness is an intrinsic good, whether the person is a lesbian, a gossip, or a tax-cheat.

Gossip or tax-cheat?

Comparable to a lesbian?

Glenn T. Stanton, you are an asshole.

Nothing really counts after that.
____
Belated h/t to NG

Stop using sex as a weapon.

Via La Bella Media:

Via Virginia High-Schoolers Rally for Gay-Cure Books

Groups of students and parents staged rallies and presented some 85 books on homosexuality from a conservative Christian perspective for inclusion in the libraries at 11 schools in the Fairfax County (Va.) Public School District October 2.

The inspiration for their actions came from a nationwide campaign organized by the Colorado Springs, Colorado–based traditional values group Focus on the Family.

Titles included Joe Dallas’s Desires in Conflict and The Gay Gospel? How Pro-Gay Advocates Misread the Bible and 101 Frequently Asked Questions about Homosexuality by Mike Haley.

According to the following article, Joe Dallas is divorced and remarried. It would appear that he cheated on his first wife, initiated a divorce as the result, and then "married" a second wife.

That's right, the author of the book "The Gay Gospel? How Pro-gay Advocates Misread the Bible," also happens to be an unrepentant bigamist adulterer.

From "By Joe Dallas, as told to Bob Davies":

-I married Brad's secretary, Carol
-Carol was gone, and we later divorced
-Renee and I were married

Not all that unlike John McCain:

This is the way I view it. Thirty years ago, John McCain wanted Cindy. He did whatever he had to do to get Cindy. That included destroying his family. Leaving a wife, someone who had waited for him while he was a POW, had been severely injured in a car accident and was quite dependent on her husband. He broke up the family of his young children because his desire for a woman 17 years his junior was more important than the needs of the woman he was already married to and the needs of his children.

Fortunately Joe didn't have kids' lives to ruin, but that doesn't stop the fact that he still lives in sin with his current mistress, Renee:

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

Plainly, Joe Dallas one of the last people on Earth in a position to judge anyone else who might "Misread the Bible."

They also want Mike Haley's sanitized version of The Eternal Jew in book form put in libraries: "101 Frequently Asked Questions about Homosexuality." In fact why not just be quick about it and call it 101 FA Q's.

He's worth the money, he's got a couple of glistening gems:

Question #47 from pages 108-110,

47. Why does male homosexuality often include promiscuity?
[...]
A study realeased in 2003 found that the average duration of "steady" homosexual male partnerships was "0.75-2.25 years." What's more, those in the study who identified themselves as being in a "steady" relationship were also found to average eight casual partners a year in addition to their significant other.

OMG, stop the presses, men on men are pigger than pigs. Spooky huh?

Here's the actual scary part. As BoxTurtleBulletin notes (bold mine):

This study excluded everyone over thirty — the prime age in which people are more likely to settle down and marry.

And:

And this is the most important point of all: Because the purpose of the study was to look at how AIDS is transmitted, all monogamous couples were specifically excluded from the study. Because monogamous couples aren’t transmitting HIV, they would have been completely irrelevant to the study’s goals.

And that's just the beginning of what's wrong with the misuse of that study. And THAT'S just the beginning of what's wrong with Mike Haley's book.

Mike Haley is a LIAR, and those who support, promote, and foist the book of a liar onto an unsuspecting public are either liars themselves, or are WILLFULY ignorant. The only difference, is that one of them thinks that it's ok to lie to yourself.

Apparently for them, if you shut your eyes, run a stop sign, and happen to kill someone, it's ok as long as you "took responsibility" by shutting your eyes to the consequences.

Anyone who promotes Mike Haley's book is a LIAR.
Anyone who promotes Joe Dallas' books is a liar AND a hypocrite.

And BTW yes, I'm quite "intolerant" of liars and hypocrites, especially when they insist on calling themselves Christians.

Faithless lot.

John Stemberger's Florida4marriage used "Dutch Study" to dupe gullible pastors and church goers.

From the now defunct florida4marriage.org, led by John Stemberger -- leader of the Florida anti-marriage movement -- the "Dutch Study" (Via Glenn Stanton of Focus of the Family) was used to portray gay people as being inherently promiscuous:

Is Marriage in Jeopardy?
August 27, 2003
by Glenn T. Stanton

Q: But doesn’t expanding marriage to include homosexuals actually help strengthen marriage?

A: Just the opposite. There is recent evidence from the Netherlands, arguably the most “gay-friendly” culture on earth, that homosexual men have a very difficult time honoring the ideal of marriage. Even though same-sex “marriage” is legal there, a British medical journal reports male homosexual relationships last, on average, 1.5 years, and gay men have an average of eight partners a year outside of their supposedly “committed” relationships.

However, as BoxTurtleBulletin notes (bold mine):

--This study was not about gay relationships, as most people who misuse this study claims. Its purpose was to study how HIV is transmitted in the Dutch population. That’s why the study was based only on those with HIV/AIDS attending STD clinics. It is no more generalizable to the general LGBT population than heterosexuals with STD’s are representative of straight people overall.

--This study excluded everyone over thirty — the prime age in which people are more likely to settle down and marry.

--“Relationships” weren’t defined. Anything including a second date to a lifetime commitment could be counted. You simply cannot compare that to straight couples who are married as the FRC does. FRC cites the study as taking place in a country with “legalized homosexual marriage”, but the Netherlands didn’t have anything like it when the study ended in 1998.

Registered partnerships for same-sex and opposite-sex couples didn’t begin until October 1, 1999. A limited form of same-sex marriage wasn’t available until 2001.

--And this is the most important point of all: Because the purpose of the study was to look at how AIDS is transmitted, all monogamous couples were specifically excluded from the study. Because monogamous couples aren’t transmitting HIV, they would have been completely irrelevant to the study’s goals.

These "Christians," John Stemberger and Glenn Stanton, have been using a study that EXCLUDED monogamous gay couples to show that gay couples are not monogamous!

AND THEY'RE STILL DOING IT!
From Focus on the Family: Marriage on the Ropes:

Studies show that homosexual men, in particular, have a difficult time honoring even the most basic commitments of "marriage." A recent study conducted in the Netherlands — a "progressive" nation in which gay marriage has been legal for several years — found that the average homosexual relationship lasts only 1.5 years, and that gay men have an average of eight sexual partners per year outside of their "primary" relationship!

Related post: Florida (Yes on 2) anti-marriage movement uses "Dutch Study" to further their cause.
~~~~Studies like these need to be sought out and carefully edited - meaning that the deception is willful.

So to all you "Christians" and pastors out there who feel that intentional dishonesty is acceptable to your "Lord Jesus Christ," just remember, this is your witness to the rest of we "lost," "confused," and "damned to hell for all eternity" homosexuals.

including to those of us who already happen to be 'unthinkably Christian' as well!

Florida (Yes on 2) anti-marriage movement uses "Dutch Study" to further their cause.

Hi, I'm John Stemberger, and apparently I approve of this message:

What Harm Would Same Sex Marriage Do? By Peter Sprigg (Color PDF Brochure)

One study in the Netherlands showed that homosexual men with a steady partner had an average of eight sexual partners per year. [...] The same Dutch study that showed the high rate of homosexual promiscuity also showed that the average homosexual male “partnership” lasts only 1.5 years.

You can read more about the Dutch Study here.

Most importantly (IMO), is that monogamous gay couples WERE EXCLUDED from the study altogether! But of course, they don't say that, yet the study continues to be used to show that ALL gay men with "steady partner[s]" are promiscuous (and thus, not a good environment for raising children).

Meaning, that John Stemberger, and the "Christian" Florida anti-marriage movement, are willing to LIE (in the name of Jesus of course).