Thursday, June 26, 2008

"How Your Same-sex Family Will Harm My Family"

According to Glenn Stanton of Focus on the Family, here's how:
Your same-sex family will teach my little boys and girls that husband/wife and mother/father are merely optional for the family and therefore, meaningless.

The Lou Sheldon version:

Max Blumenthal: And you’ve said that the lifestyle is very seductive and it’s hard to get out of it.

Lou Sheldon: Well it’s a groove, you get in that groove and you’re up the creek without a paddle. But remember, homosexuality could strike you, it could strike this man here taking the picture.

Max Blumenthal: How could it strike me?

Lou Sheldon: Because you could go into a gender identity confusion, because it is a psychological imbalance. Something happens in a person’s life. It becomes a spirit.

Paul Cameron's take (re BTB) :
Homosexuality is particularly ‘sticky entertainment.' Like drug addiction, it's hard to break away from. But homosexuality transcends ‘sticky.' It is so all-consuming that it tends to degrade the logic and character of those who indulge in it.

And finally, a one Mr. Paul Richins' assessment:
Consider this scenario: You are married as husband and wife and have children. Since you agree with same-sex "marriages" your children say, "It must be great, exciting and fantastic." So all your children go for same-sex "marriages." They produce no grandchildren. Your ancestral line vanishes. How exciting and fantastic.

Argument being, that to make something legal, is to make it appealing.

Good thing we have laws against gouging one's eyes out...
Edit 7-10-08: In regard to that last line, I should have come up with a better example. I realize that gouging one's own eyes out isn't technically illegal.

Monday, June 23, 2008

Don't hate me because I love hate speech.

(Reposted from the Vigilance blog (Teach The Facts))

Theresa said...

"You are right Jim.

Nuts including Canadian Baptist ministers who dare to declare their faith in the public square. That homosexuality is immoral.

$7000 fine by the HRC. (The HRC is the same orgnanization that will enforce our gender identity law here […]) Freedom of religon directly in conflict with gay lesbian advocacy movement."

I see you also mention this story on the notmyshower site under "Religious Liberty At Stake."

Let's take a closer look, shall we?

Alberta Human Rights and Citizenship Commission. AKA, the “HRC.”

About the Commission:

"In Alberta, the Human Rights, Citizenship and Multiculturalism Act (HRCM Act) protects Albertans from discrimination in certain areas and on certain grounds. The purpose of the HRCM Act is to ensure that all Albertans are offered an equal opportunity to earn a living, find a place to live and enjoy services customarily available to the public without discrimination."

Those protected citizens include:


"WHEREAS it is recognized in Alberta as a fundamental principle and as a matter of public policy that all persons are equal in: dignity, rights and responsibilities without regard to race, religious beliefs, colour, gender, physical disability, mental disability, age, ancestry, place of origin, marital status, source of income or family status;"
Discrimination re publications, notices:

"No person shall publish, issue or display or cause to be published, issued or displayed before the public any statement, publication, notice, sign, symbol, emblem or other representation that

(a) indicates discrimination or an intention to discriminate against a person or a class of persons, or (b) is likely to expose a person or a class of persons to hatred or contempt"

Clearly, this Canadian code is NOT the result of the GLBT equal rights advocacy movement, as you would have us all believe.

As far as the Canadian pastor who was fined $7000 for 'daring to declare his faith in public that homosexuality is immoral,' you've brought him up before, and I posted extensive excerpts of his letter at that time.

If you're so concerned about the suppression of free speech, why not print his (Rev Stephen Boissoin's now illegal) letter to the editor, so that we can all get a glimpse of just what it is, and whom you're actually defending?

Allow me:
Homosexual Agenda Wicked
From the Jun 17, 2002 issue of the Red Deer Advocate:

"The following is not intended for those who are suffering from an unwanted sexual identity crisis. For you, I have understanding, care, compassion and tolerance. I sympathize with you and offer you my love and fellowship. I prayerfully beseech you to seek help, and I assure you that your present enslavement to homosexuality can be remedied. Many outspoken, former homosexuals are free today.

Instead, this is aimed precisely at every individual that in any way supports the homosexual machine that has been mercilessly gaining ground in our society since the 1960s. I cannot pity you any longer and remain inactive. You have caused far too much damage.

My banner has now been raised and war has been declared so as to defend the precious sanctity of our innocent children and youth, that you so eagerly toil, day and night, to consume. With me stand the greatest weapons that you have encountered to date - God and the "Moral Majority." Know this, we will defeat you, then heal the damage that you have caused. Modern society has become dispassionate to the cause of righteousness. Many people are so apathetic and desensitized today that they cannot even accurately define the term "morality."

The masses have dug in and continue to excuse their failure to stand against horrendous atrocities such as the aggressive propagation of homo- and bisexuality. Inexcusable justifications such as, "I'm just not sure where the truth lies," or "If they don't affect me then I don't care what they do," abound from the lips of the quantifiable majority.

Face the facts, it is affecting you. Like it or not, every professing heterosexual is have their future aggressively chopped at the roots.

Edmund Burke's observation that, "All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing," has been confirmed time and time again. From kindergarten class on, our children, your grandchildren are being strategically targeted, psychologically abused and brainwashed by homosexual and pro-homosexual educators.

Our children are being victimized by repugnant and premeditated strategies, aimed at desensitizing and eventually recruiting our young into their camps. Think about it, children as young as five and six years of age are being subjected to psychologically and physiologically damaging pro-homosexual literature and guidance in the public school system; all under the fraudulent guise of equal rights.

Your children are being warped into believing that same-sex families are acceptable; that men kissing men is appropriate.

Your teenagers are being instructed on how to perform so-called safe same gender oral and anal sex and at the same time being told that it is normal, natural and even productive. Will your child be the next victim that tests homosexuality positive?

Come on people, wake up! It's time to stand together and take whatever steps are necessary to reverse the wickedness that our lethargy has authorized to spawn. Where homosexuality flourishes, all manner of wickedness abounds.

Regardless of what you hear, the militant homosexual agenda isn't rooted in protecting homosexuals from "gay bashing." The agenda is clearly about homosexual activists that include, teachers, politicians, lawyers, Supreme Court judges, and God forbid, even so-called ministers, who are all determined to gain complete equality in our nation and even worse, our world.

Don't allow yourself to be deceived any longer. These activists are not morally upright citizens, concerned about the best interests of our society. They are perverse, self-centered and morally deprived individuals who are spreading their psychological disease into every area of our lives. Homosexual rights activists and those that defend them, are just as immoral as the pedophiles, drug dealers and pimps that plague our communities.

The homosexual agenda is not gaining ground because it is morally backed. It is gaining ground simply because you, Mr. and Mrs. Heterosexual, do nothing to stop it. It is only a matter of time before some of these morally bankrupt individuals such as those involved with NAMBLA, the North American Man/Boy Lovers Association, will achieve their goal to have sexual relations with children and assert that it is a matter of free choice and claim that we are intolerant bigots not to accept it.

If you are reading this and think that this is alarmist, then I simply ask you this: how bad do things have to become before you will get involved? It's time to start taking back what the enemy has taken from you. The safety and future of our children is at stake.

Rev Stephen Boissoin"

"Homosexual rights activists and those that defend them, are just as immoral as the pedophiles"

And there you have the "morality" of Rev. Stephen Boissoin - adult gay relationships, and anyone who supports them, are exactly the same as child rapists.

Now, despite the fact that you defend this definition of "morality," Ms. Rickman, you use the above example to say that "Freedom of religon directly in conflict with gay lesbian avocacy movement," and that "the GLBT movement is winning. Which means "all churches who don't agree with us doors will be closed"."

What you neglect to mention is that Egale Canada ((Equality for Gays and Lesbians Everywhere) a national organization that advances equality and justice for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and trans-identified people and their families across Canada) refused to take up the case against Reverend Boissoin. Meaning that one of, if not the leading gay rights organization in Canada actually STANDS WITH YOU in supporting Rev. Boissoin's right to public hate speech.

Personally, and for the record, I concur with their position:

"We think the best course is to expose his misguided views to public strutiny. We believe that sunshine is the best disinfectant."

But who do you choose to blame? Not the individual, Darren Lund, who brought the complaint, but the ENTIRE GLBT equal rights movement.

And who do you choose to defend in all of this? Paul Cameron supporter Stephen Boissoin.

Paul Cameron, fan of Nazi war criminal Rudolf Höss, believes gays should be imprisoned for "sodomy," and is an open advocate of genocide for anyone living with HIV.

Boissoin also uses the "Dutch Study" to depict gay relationships as inherently non-monogamous. A study which EXCLUDED MONOGAMOUS COUPLES!
This is obviously NOT about "religious" freedom for you, it's about the "freedom" to impose your "religion" on others.

And for whatever reason, it seems that you are either unable or unwilling to admit this. Yet despite this, you have the temerity to complain that you, and those like you, are the ones who are truly being persecuted.

This also isn't about "free speech" for you. It's about the protection of "hate speech."

You have literally come here in expectation of sympathy for your defense of hate speech, and you wish for us to feel sorry for you.
Also see:

Randy Thomas, VP of Exodus International.

D.L. Foster's Gay Christian Movement Watch.

Saturday, June 21, 2008

Proof of God*, no Bible required.

(To avoid confusion, the article in blockquotes below is not mine, but the commentary below it is)

The Concept of Nothing.

It is contrary to reasoning to say that there is a vacuum or space in which there is absolutely nothing.

– Descartes
The concept of Nothing is something that we live with every day, but never really think about. What is Nothing? When I ask you what you have in your pocket, you might reply, "Nothing." I ask you how many you have, you say, "none." We understand each other. You have no money, papers, Kleenex, etc.

But what if I really thought there was "Nothing" somewhere in the universe, I'd have to ask: Is it really "Nothing?" Isn't "Nothing" sort of Something? Isn't at least the concept that you and I have of what "Nothing" is, Something? Isn't a vacuum at least something?

"What is inside the box?" I ask.

"A vacuum."




"What is a box, what part of the box is actually inside the box? At what point does the box start being a container instead of a box, the very last layer of molecules that is exposed to the vacuum, or the outer layer? If it's the outer layer, then the box is inside the box."

"Somebody get that kid outa here."

Five things are certainly not nothing. They are states, places, concepts and brain teasers. They are not matter certainly, but not nothing either.

So, there must be something that we share, a common conception of what "Nothing" is in any given circumstance. Nothing really takes on the definition of what the two parties intended. Nothing must be a fluid thing indeed. It fills our container with something to understand. It springs into existence when we need it to take shape, and vanishes ever more quickly when we dismiss it. It matches our needs, our understanding, our wishes. It is our servant becoming whatever we need it to be: Something.

So if the concept of nothing depends on the conceptions of those involved, how might we define absolute nothing, because the absence of anything really is sort of something, if only a concept.

If there was a big bang, and before the universe existed, there was no time, no space, what was there.

"Nothing," you reply.

Everyone is of course hard pressed to come up with common understanding of what sort of nothing, the Nothing that existed before the big bang was... or wasn't.

Starting to sound like A.A. Milne, aren't I?

If no two people have a similar concept of what this sort of nothing is, then how can they come to an understanding. It's like asking that kid again what's in his pocket.

He replies with a smirk, "Lint, air... what actually is a pocket..."

Obviously you realize what I meant when I asked you the question. Of course there was a misconception of what I was asking. I wanted to know if he had anything of value in his pocket. The kid wanted to let me know that his definition of "Nothing" was superior to mine, more exact, more his master than mine. He had the Nothing working harder for him than I did. My Nothing was lazy, ill conceived. His was sharp, exact.

But how can we be exact about the Nothing that existed before the universe?

Our definitions break down, nothing seems to be a concept that none of us can understand at this point. It has no common focus for us.

So we call it God.

God is nothing?

Now, what do you have in your pocket, smart ass?

Cute eh? That's probably the most succinct, applicable, and entertaining explanation I've found of how I see it. The more I read it, the more complete a synopsis it seems to be.

How do you measure nothing to prove that it exists?
How could even God perceive nothing, if nothing – by it's very nature – cannot exist?

And if nothing doesn’t exist, how then can the concept of it?

There’s only one answer, that the concept of nothing itself is an illusion – “something” that we all accept with carefree abandon.

Look at it the other way,

The opposite of nothing is everything. It can’t just be “some” thing, or more-than-one-thing, because inbetween those things would exist nothing, and we’ve already established that nothing cannot exist.

Outside of what DOES exist, cannot be perceived.

Ergo, the concept of nothing is proof of oneness.

Ergo, there's no such thing as "outside-of-God."


Study: Most Children Strongly Opposed To Children’s Healthcare

Don't forget to check out the scroll


Thursday, June 19, 2008

Sisterlisa of Apples of Gold Ministries: Gay couples responsible for CA wildfires.

Sisterlisa of Apples of Gold ministries writes an hackneyed diatribe article called "Marriage Defined."

She begins with:
This last week I was speaking to my husband about our marriage series here at Apples of Gold and something really weighed heavy on my heart. […] Yet, now for some reason a Superior Court judge in the state of California thinks he can change that law on his own…

Actually I believe it was four judges who (oh who cares)...

She continues:
I personally use one book as my text in regards to this issue in life and that is the Holy Bible.

And continues:
If same gender relationships continue and become legal... [...] Where do you draw the line? I know where God draws His line!

Leviticus 20:13, " If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." KJV

And continues:
How can we overlook these commands from the Lord and say it is left to your own interpretation?

Drum Roll
I live in the state of California and this state is about to make a seriously unwise decision in allowing these marriages [...] Now has anyone else noticed that mid-June is also the time that the state of California also suffered severe loss due to fires?

First of all Sisterlisa, according to anti-gay industry protocol, you're supposed to put the word marriage in "quotes," in order to denote, without saying so, that our love is fake (ie; gay "marriage").

Secondly, to suggest that bad things happen to "bad states," is to imply a belief in statewide karma, which I don't think you meant to do. Clearly, bad things do not necessarily happen to people who have been bad, and good things do not necessarily happen to people who have been good. So why would an all knowing and just God of love feel that the best way to communicate with an already confused and fearful human electorate, was through the pronunciation of natural disasters?

Thirdly, do you really believe that gay men should be "put to death" as God's Word commands?

If so, say so. If not, then how am I to respect that your beliefs about gay marriage are truly based on the Bible, as opposed to just coinciding with the Bible?

Or does that even matter to you?

Friday, June 13, 2008

How much of this anti-gay hatred is fear based?

I realize that sentiment is cliché, so I only wish to explore an aspect of it here.

That said, as Box Turtle Bulletin has been relentlessly following this story about California county employees refusing to do their jobs, something for me has come to mind.

In one of the BTB threads, Evan linked to his coverage of the Kern County / Ann Barnett story, in which he linked to another article on the situation:

At her request, County Counsel Bernard Barmann filed a brief with the California Supreme Court opposing implementation of the May 15 ruling allowing gay marriage.

She tried to resign her elected position as county clerk — while keeping her positions as auditor-controller and elections boss.

“She really wanted to get rid of it,” Barmann said.

And finally, when the ruling came down Wednesday that she had to license same-sex marriages, she decided to stop performing all weddings. That involved canceling 25 heterosexual ceremonies that had been scheduled after June 13, according to her staff

The portion in bold, above, coincides with these types of efforts:
(link, re Pam's House Blend)
A South Carolina school district has delayed until later in the month a vote on whether to ban all student clubs that don't relate to academics or sports as a way to close a gay student organization.
And now back to Kern County's Ann Barnett. She’s not the only CA county clerk who's determined to oppress all for the sake of ensuring the oppression of some, other CA county clerks have also jumped on the dereliction of duty bandwagon.

Now we know that those involved in the anti-gay industry lifestyle define themselves by their love of hatred. Namely, their love of hating gays "homosexuality." We also know -- according to the anti-gay industry -- that same sex attraction is the highest form of God-mockery that exists.

And given that they believe that gay marriage equality will bring about the destruction of civilization, especially since every society in human history that has fallen, has fallen specifically because of gays, then therefore, the presence of gays, is a precursor to the fall of that civilization.

So if the presence of gays homosexuality is the precursor to the destruction of civilization, then it would naturally follow that the acceptance of homosexuality would lead to the acceleration of that destruction.

Authorizing same-sex unions would then constitute a recognition of this 'God-mockery,' making these county-clerks willing accomplices, not only in the “mockery” of God -- personally and professionally -- but also in the “destruction of civilization.”

So as you can see, they’re in quite a bind.

John McCain: "the constitution established the United States of America as a Christian Nation."

(Thanks to Sportin' Life, over at Pam's House blend who turned me on to this video.)

McCain: America Established as a Christian Nation

Note about the following transcript for those of you who don't watch the video; these are edited-clips of quotes from the same interview.

I would probably have to say yes that the constitution established the United States of America as a Christian Nation.

I think the number one issue that is in the selection - which people should make a selection of president of the United States, is will this person carry on in the Judeo-Christian principled tradition that has made this nation the greatest experiment in the history of mankind.

I just have to say in all candor that since this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles that - that’s a decision that the American people would make, but personally, I prefer someone who I know has a solid grounding in my faith. I just feel that my faith is probably a better spiritual guidance. I just feel that that’s an important part of our qualifications to lead.

We welcome the poor, the tired, the huddled masses, and but when they come here, they shouldn’t - they know that they are in a nation founded on Christian principles.

Our founding fathers were concerned about church being part of the state, such as it had been in England, and the imposition of a certain type of Christianity imposed on people.

So they didn’t mean, in my view, separation of church and state, that there’s no place for God, a superior being, a creator.

They also continued to emphasize the Ju--Christian principle that all--- ‘In God we trust,’ ‘created equal.’ Every statement that they made had to do with the belief in a divine creator.

The--we are a nation which is uniquely designated in many respects, but I think it was man implementing the teachings of Christ…

YouTube video poster jedreport says in the information section:
Leave aside for the moment whether John McCain's religious bigotry is acceptable in modern America.

Instead, ask yourself what the media would have done if Jeremiah Wright had uttered those words, especially if he had been talking about race instead of religion?

So two things of note, John McCain's anti-American beliefs about America, and why the main stream media hasn't picked up on it and mercilessly exploited it - especially in regard the the John Hagee fiasco that did get extensive MSM coverage.

Monday, June 9, 2008

From Good As You

Happy Pride from G-A-Y

Alan Chambers: "there are hundreds of thousands of people just like me, who have found freedom from homosexuality."

Homosexuality 101 [© 2006] is an educational DVD which provides this much needed information, including a description of the factors that contribute to the development of homosexuality in the life of a child, testimonies by two former homosexuals, a testimony from a parent of a homosexual, and a discussion on how Christians should respond to this issue.

Full transcript of Alan Chambers' Introduction:

Hi, my name is Alan Chambers, and I’m the president of Exodus International. Exodus is the World’s leading educational resource and referral network in the world dealing with homosexuality. We reach out to men and women, families, youth, and churches, affected by unwanted homosexuality. Meaning, not everybody who is gay, wants to be. In fact, there are hundreds of thousands of people just like me, who have found freedom from homosexuality.

Since 1976, Exodus has lead the church, in helping to be the arms to those affected by sexual brokenness. Since 2001, when I became the president of Exodus, we enhanced our mission to include vocalizing and equipping the Church to understand and reach out to men and women struggling with homosexuality. We, more than anything, want to see the healing power of Jesus Christ offered to as many people as possible.

Exodus is comprised today of a hundred and thirty member ministries and therapists located throughout the United States and Canada. Additionally, we are affiliated with the Exodus Global alliance, which now boasts more than a hundred ministries across Europe, Asia, Africa, and South America. With the Exodus Global Alliance, we are ministering in churches, communities, and governments, helping people to understand this issue from a redemptive standpoint.

The truth is, that people need to be educated about the issue of Homosexuality. The Church needs more understanding today than ever before, on how to reach out to men and women, families and communities affected by this great issue.

The goal of this resource is to help you understand the issue of homosexuality from a personal perspective. You’ll hear a testimony from a man named Mike Ensley, who struggled in the Church, the son of a pastor, who, not only dealt with homosexuality, personally, but overcame it.

Christine Sneeringer, who came out of lesbianism over a decade ago.

Dr. Julie Harren is going to explain the roots and the causes of homosexuality.

And then Jack Harren is going to talk about his son, who is still involved in homosexuality, and how he came to not only love him, but begin to minister to other parents who have children involved in this issue.

I pray that this resource will encourage you, not only to reach out with compassion and understanding towards those struggling with unwanted homosexuality, but encourage you and your church to become a ministry of redemption, reaching out to your community, and to those in it, affected by unwanted homosexuality.

Remember, First Corinthians 6-9 verse 11 says that, ‘but such were some of you.’ The truth is, freedom from homosexuality is possible.

I pray that many people in your community will start their journey out of homosexuality, with you.
Also see Ex-Gay Watch: Love Won Out Still Promoting Orientation Change

Friday, June 6, 2008

Janet Folger: "Next to Fort Lauderdale Florida, Randy’s on the line. Welcome Randy."

@ the 51:45 mark: Janet Folger, Faith2Action radio program from 6-6-08

Randy: Hello, how are you?

Janet Folger: Well, thanks.

Randy: Good, good, good. I am calling just [as an?] interject on this whole conversation. I love the conversation within itself. I come from a Christian background, and in the last 16 years lived a gay lifestyle until about 8 months ago. And knowing what the gay lifestyle has, and know how it--the, the motivation behind it is a sexual motivation. And inside of the sexual sin, then comes the sin--the drugs, and everything else, and then comes the breaking down of--um, of truth.

The sad part that we as Christian’s are, um, I guess making the mistake in, is, the way that we talk, even like on shows, or talk shows such as this, it’s in a very strong, um, um, almost with a sense of arrogance. Yes we’re trying to reveal what is so. But when you’re given the truth that transform [sic], I heard you say earlier in the commentary about, love, and when you’re echoing out God’s Word, we should be echoing out God’s word in a way of - with compassion and hope, because that’s what it was about, but often times…

Janet Folger: So, you’re right Randy. We’re just running out of time, just, so you were a homosexual, you are no longer practicing that lifestyle?

Randy: Right. Correct, correct.

Janet Folger: Praise God. What a testimony.

Rick Scarborough: And your words are well taken, because, sometimes in my zeal I get a little too forward, and a little too abrasive, it is never right to project arrogance, and I apologize to the listeners for that.

Janet Folger: Sometimes what unfortunately, you may sense in mine is fear - I see that there is risk of our freedoms being lost, but we’ve got to put our trust in God, and we need to obey Him, and speak that truth in love. Rick Scarborough, thanks so much, from Vision America - so grateful for all you’re doing my friend.

Rick Scarborough: You too, God bless.

Janet Folger: Bless you.

Update: Apparently it wasn't Randy Thomas of Exodus. I asked him and he said it wasn't him.

Thursday, June 5, 2008

California Supreme Court: "Gay couples will begin marrying in California in less than two weeks"

Opponents had petitioned the court to delay its decision until Californians vote on a November ballot initiative that would define marriage as between a man and a woman. The court ruled 4-3 not to stay its May 15 decision.

The Anti-Gay Industry immediately released this statement in response:

"Just because we're against gay couples, doesn't mean we don't love homosexuals."


Tuesday, June 3, 2008

American's for truth buffoonery at its best.

(Thanks to Good As You for this one.)
Despite having pored over their website, I still can't tell if these people are for real or not (consider the title of the song), but apparently Peter LaBarbera does - so that's good enough for me!

Come On Down To The Farm

Peter LaBarbera: "Folk, there’s more common sense and wisdom in this three-minute video by country Gospel singer [Darlene McBride] than in a thousand court briefings by Lambda Legal (the leading homosexual activist legal pressure group" *

MADtv Darlene McBride- Take Back America Tour

*not actual quote.

Bishop Harry Jackson: "I've had death threats by openly gay groups"

(Cross posted at Pam's House Blend.)

Bishop Harry Jackson recently met with families of Soulforce:
The American Family Outing is a nationwide fellowship effort that aims to build bridges between LGBT families and families at American mega-churches. AFO families met with Bishop Jackson and members of his Hope Christian Church in Beltsville, MD, on Saturday, May 24, 2008.

This video documents Jackson's closing remarks at that meeting.

Bishop Harry Jackson and the American Family Outing

Full transcript follows, as well as video and full transcript of smackingly contradictory CBN video -- three days later -- making a public mockery of not only these Soulforce families, but of their sincerity in meeting with him.

Among the sentiments he expressed to Soulforce:
Bishop Harry Jackson: I honor the fact that other people have been threatened, but I think it’s unconscionable that I have to work through my feelings about being attacked or accused or threatened, all that kind of stuff, and every day that I live I wake up, look--little Google thing that comes across my desk, I have at least three or four things that are written by openly gay bloggers that have my name on it, and they call me an out and out bigot, and I think that’s interesting. They feel like they have the liberty, without knowing me or talking, to defame me, to talk about me, to put me down -- they’ve never done what you are doing, visited us, never talked to us. There’s something hypocritical about that.

Well then. Let’s get to know the good bishop…

Shall we?

Full transcript of Soulforce video above (followed by video and full transcript of CBN video):
Bishop Harry Jackson: ...there’s a problem in the culture, and the Word of God gives a clear answer to the problem. Whatever that answer is, we should first live it ourselves. The church in my view, especially the evangelical church in our generation, has been guilty of trying to bring others to do things that we won’t do ourselves. To live things that we don’t live ourselves. The issue of marriage today, traditional marriage, as we had the question earlier--what shall we do about gay marriage, and all of that. The reality is heterosexual marriages are failing in America, many of them, nearly fifty percent, because--heterosexual community is not doing something right. There’s a failure to live out some of the convictions that are primary to the scripture. And if you don’t live it at that first level, you really disqualify yourself to speak out to anyone else about it. It really is a violation of what I’m going to call prophetic protocol, if I may say that. So the Church has to decide how intensely is she going to live the truth the she purports to believe.

Second issue is doing right. And the doing right, in my view means, what ministries do you have, that deal with the problems that you see? The question was asked earlier, whether we had a ministry for G-L-B-T people, and how do we respond to them. I said we don’t have any ministry, other than our friends at Exodus International working with us, and us referring folks to them. And as I hear that question, I have to say to myself that we at Hope Christian Church, need to be about being more open and offering the healing power of God, as we see it. Now that’s where we are today. And, but rather than saying hey, there’s nothing that we’re going to do, maybe there should be service ministry locally, around people coming to grips with where they are, their journey, coming to really know Christ, etc., etc.

Third issue is moving right. I think, as I view this phrase moving right, I would call it the current PR battle of our generation. Scripture says that we’re not to let our good be evil spoken of. And tonight I want to just tell you that I hate the fact that there are many many folks who believe as I do in the sanctity of marriage, believe as I do about trying to uphold some of these fundamental institutions, who have stepped over lines, and they’ve got issues that are unresolved with gay folks. And I think that somehow we’re going to have to say, how does love wear servant’s clothes, or what does love look like if it says I disagree with you, but I still value your right to believe as you believe, and still value you as a person?

I’ll take some ownership of the fact that the evangelical community has not always known carefully or clearly, how to say I disagree, but I’m going to disagree in a spirit that reflects the spirit of Christ.

Fourth thing that I think is important is that we need to pray right before we prophesize--speak to the culture. And what I mean by pray right, somehow in that civil rights movement, folks got a hold of something from God that so transformed them that they could say hey, release the dogs on me, or release the hoses on me, and I’m still going to come and stand in a right way, in a right spirit.

The answer before, and the statement that Troy brought before, I honor the fact that other people have been threatened, but I think it’s unconscionable that I have to work through my feelings about being attacked or accused or threatened, all that kind of stuff, and every day that I live I wake up, look--little Google thing that comes across my desk, I have at least three or four things that are written by openly gay bloggers that have my name on it, and they call me an out and out bigot, and I think that’s interesting. They feel like they have the liberty, without knowing me or talking, to defame me, to talk about me, to put me down -- they’ve never done what you are doing, visited us, never talked to us. There’s something hypocritical about that.

Somebody needs to pray through what they’re dealing with before they start to move out and try to correct problems. See, and that’s on both sides of this question, it’s with the evangelicals and it’s with the gay community. So, for us, I say to our team, we’re going to have to begin more and more to pray about the reality of discrimination and other issues with the gay community. And I have thought, and maybe you disagree with me, that we have allowed some of these issues to become polarized, because political parties find it to their advantage to play everybody against one another, and they play out their dance of support and finance and votes, but with no intention really of doing anything that counts toward the problem. ‘Cause if you tell me, well, there are 1100 laws that you have access to that separate me, and I’m saying that I believe everyone should be treated humanly, why hasn’t somebody sat down and said, what are the reality of the these laws -- the lady talked about the expenses she had to go through to make sure that certain rights, the transfer of property, or taking care of sick ones, aren’t available -- why doesn’t some politician sit down and say, this the list, these are the issues, and here’s where we go. No, we’re in a tug-of-war that is over all, or nothing at all, that makes no answer that we come up with but an all, or nothing at all idea with marriage, acceptable.

No preacher worth his salt who is born in a traditional evangelical church system in this generation would ever say, alright, just do what want with marriage.

First of all, he’d lose the paycheck, Second, he’d lose the parsonage, and ultimately he’d lose the pension.

So we’ve got an issue here that is untenable. So, I send you back, I mean, the gay movement is very very active politically, that’s very obvious in this political cycle, and in others. And the evangelical community has been active, so where are we? Are we praying through our issues or are we fighting a tug-of-war?

Finally, I think we have to speak right, speak correctly. And for me, it’s been a matter of whether others know it or don’t, receive it or not, act like they understand it or not, for me, I always try to measure my words concerning the issues I speak to, as I write columns or as I speak to various television programs or radio interviews, I try to measure my words to address the issues that I think need to be talked about from a Biblical perspective.

Our ministry is touched, and I know as we debrief afterwards, we going to ask ourselves a question, in this generation, with the growing number of openly gay people, and the growing number of gay marriages, regardless of whether we want them or not, or we even endorse them or not, how do we present the Gospel in this generation, it’s power and it’s claims?

And so I want to thank you tonight for coming. Again, if you had not invited us originally, if you had not insisted on the dialogue, it never would have happened. And I’m thankful for the spirit in which you have said you were going to operate, and you have operated thus far. Again, we did not know, were you coming in peace, or whether you came with a sword. We had no way of knowing that, really didn’t. And so we’re very very thankful for this opportunity to dialogue with you, and I believe that we’ve learned quite a bit from this time together. Pastor [Vera?] would you…


Compare and contrast with CBN interview no less than three days later, on May 27, 2008:

CBN News: Interview with Bishop Harry Jackson

Wendy Griffith: A gay rights group is trying to confront six mega churches across the US. Over the weekend the group met with Bishop Harry Jackson of Hope Christian Center in Maryland. The Washington Times reports 30 conservative black Pentecostals dined with 30 of the activists. Members of Soulforce say the talks are designed to force the conversation about faith, family, and homosexuality, to a national level. Other churches that have been targeted include Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church, and T.D. Jakes’ The Potter’s House.

Bishop Harry Jackson joins us now from Washington, and Bishop Jackson, you met with members of Soulforce over the weekend, what happened?

Bishop Harry Jackson: Well, they had their old spiel. You know, they’re out to get civil rights, they’re out to change the nature of marriage, and to be included in the Church. Over the years they’ve been aggressive, and this group has had a reputation of having sit ins, being arrested, holding up placards, and there was a veiled threat that if we didn’t talk, they were going to act out. So we said come in, the night before, and we had a little bit of a debate, we shared the Gospel with them, and it was an amazing time, where, I believe we learned a little bit about their strategy.

There’s nothing to be afraid of. Ultimately we need to recognize, as the Church, that these folks are sinners, and that the Gospel of Jesus Christ can overcome any kind of sin, from drunkenness to homosexuality. Sometimes we try to make it so deep that we’re fighting some kind of foe that we can’t defeat. But Wendy, it’s important to note, that with the California ruling, the next decade, we’re going to deal with things like hate crimes, Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and the gay community has targeted the Church as it’s ultimate arch enemy.

Wendy Griffith: Well let me ask you this, I understand that while the group did not back down, at least one life was changed during the service. Tell us about that.

Bishop Harry Jackson: Well what happened was, we decided that we’d meet the night before, and during the regular service, I’d preach a message entitled: “Jesus, the ultimate liberator.” And we preached that from the scripture Saint John, that if you continue in His Word, then the truth shall set you free.

A openly gay man, who is HIV positive, who was not apart of that group got saved that day. But it was a sign to us, as he came forward, that God’s Word is greater than any of these kinds of attacks.

Wendy Griffith: Wow. Well you’re church is one of six churches targeted by the group. What do they hope to accomplish, and what are they doing at churches that won’t meet with them?

Bishop Harry Jackson: Well, churches that won’t meet with them, like Lakewood wouldn’t meet with them early on, and they had a little placard and they stood someplace in the city, and they had a press conference, calling them all kind of names--it’s a subtle form of intimidation. And Wendy, you may be aware that I’ve had death threats by openly gay groups, and it was interesting in our debates, as we talked with them, and I mentioned this fact, they kind of shrugged that off. And one of the guys came up and said, well, our people are under the threat of death every day of their lives, in a sense, you’re just feeling what we feel all the time.

Wendy Griffith: [LAUGHS OUT LOUD] A'heh!…I’m not getting the logic there…a'heh..

Bishop Harry Jackson: No, I don’t get it either, but the thing is that they are irrational. I believe that many of them want to be Christians, but it is a counterfeit Gospel that is being preached. And their ultimate goal is a four fold fight. They’re fighting on a PR front, they’re fighting on a legal front, they’re fighting also on a generational front, that our children will be more open to the gay lifestyle. And then finally, they’re fighting on a doctrinal front. They want to be included in the warmth and [roof?] of our society, and I think we need to, according to Psalm 2, believe that God will give us the heathen as our inheritance. And if they want to call themselves a gay nation, then I believe that Jesus can win every nation by winning those aggressive people to Christ, as he did in our Sunday morning service.

Wendy Griffith: Well said. Bishop Harry Jackson, thanks as always for being with us today.

Bishop Harry Jackson: Thank you.


It would appear that Bishop Harry Jackson leaves us with two demonization options to choose from.

Be depicted as automatically unfair:
Bishop Harry Jackson: openly gay bloggers … They feel like they have the liberty, without knowing me or talking, to defame me, to talk about me, to put me down -- they’ve never done what you are doing, visited us, never talked to us. There’s something hypocritical about that.

Visit, talk with him, and get to know him:
Bishop Harry Jackson: And so I want to thank you tonight for coming. Again, if you had not invited us originally, if you had not insisted on the dialogue, it never would have happened. And I’m thankful for the spirit in which you have said you were going to operate, and you have operated thus far.

And then be depicted as unfair:
Bishop Harry Jackson:
they’re out to change the nature of marriage
they’ve been aggressive
there was a veiled threat
we learned a little bit about their strategy
these folks are sinners
from drunkenness to homosexuality
I’ve had death threats by openly gay groups
they are irrational
children will be more open to the gay lifestyle
God will give us the heathen as our inheritance

For the record Mister Jackson, I too am a bigot.

I am bigoted against hypocritical religious supremacists.

Posted to GCMW, June 2, 2008 @ 4:41 AM Eastern time:

Re GCM Watch plans to monitor Soulforce Atlanta visit
gcmwatch: "please provide evidence that Joe Dallas has not repented of having a divorce."

Emproph: Mark 10:9 "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

If marriage is God made, and divorce is man made, how is it even possible to “repent” of divorce?

Wouldn’t that require repenting of God’s Will itself?
But that wasn't even my point - as divorce and the adultery-of-remarriage are two completely separate things.

As such, my issue had nothing to do with Joe Dallas, nor his divorce (due to his adultery). My issue was, and is, with your, GCMW’s, apparent approval of adulterous remarriage - as per the Bible:

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery…"

Which brings us back to my original question in regard to this thread;

"Why would it bother you that Soulforce spreads false doctrine about Scripture, when you yourselves list divorced and remarried unrepentant adulterer Joe Dallas as a resource?"

EVEN IF he could “repent” of his specifically-adulterous divorce, how do you find it possible for him to repent of his Scripturally-adulterous remarriage?

Perhaps you have an explanation, but my question is then in regard to why you list him as a resource without offering that explanation.

By listing Joe Dallas as a resource, without such a clarification, you come across as endorsing unrepentant adultery -- and thus, supportive of the eternal damnation of those who are divorced and remarried, including that of Joe Dallas.

Point being, if you think of unrepentant adulterers as being scripturally sound, why should anyone take you sincerely when you say that Soulforce “spreads false doctrine about Scripture” ?

Or is salvation secondary?

Sunday, June 1, 2008

GCM Watch is missing a comment.

GCM Watch plans to monitor Soulforce Atlanta visit:
Pastor DL Foster, along with supporters of GCM Watch will be at New Birth Missionary Baptist Church, this Sunday to observe and report on the actions of Soulforce members who have targeted mega churches in an effort to spread false doctrine about homosexuality and scripture.

4 Responses to "GCM Watch plans to monitor Soulforce Atlanta visit"

Now, in between Joe Brummer's comment, and James' comment, this comment should appear:
How is it possible for you to say that Soulforce spreads false doctrine about Scripture when you yourselves list divorced and remarried unrepentant adulterer Joe Dallas as a resource?

I think it's a fair question.

So GCMW, did I get lost in the spam filter, or was this intentional on your part?